someone interested in MECHATRONICS

[Faros]

Hi everyone;

Is any one here having some interest in MECHATRONICS?

I have some resources that I would love to share … my work is directly related to mechatronics and I am looking for members that would like t share practical ideas about it.

About Mechatronics:

[COLOR=DarkSlateGray]The word, mechatronics, is composed of “mecha� from mechanism and the “tronics� from electronics. In other words, technologies and developed products will be incorporating electronics more and more into mechanisms, intimately and organically, and making it impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins[/COLOR].

So, any interest …??

[magico]

Hello Faro, visit www.asm51.eng.br/forum , there are forum about mechatronics.

[Faros]

HI magico;

Thank you for your reply, I have checked the link you kindly supplied, it is not an English forum, mostly be Spanish, and my Spanish is as good as my Chinese … I thought that may be a friend in our forum will be interested … thank you for your concern .

[mredbautista]

Hi Faros,

I am very much interested about mechatronics, however, I don't know where to start, I'm just a kid in mechanism, I have a small idea about Electronics but not much. Actually, I have gone in Japan and in fact I have meet AZIMO (Honda) and Sony brothers. I am very much impress about Mechatronx and so called AI (Artificial Intelligence). I heard that Japan is selling the virtual Pet but this virtual pet is defferent from TAMAGOCHI, this mechatronx pet can able to walk and recognize master's voice. The way how you behave the pet, will also the pet behaves you.
This may sound interesting, specially for most of the hobbiest and enthusiast. Who knows, this may be led to limitless posibilities.....

More Power,
mred

[serankko]

HI magico;

Thank you for your reply, I have checked the link you kindly supplied, it is not an English forum, mostly be Spanish, and my Spanish is as good as my Chinese … I thought that may be a friend in our forum will be interested … thank you for your concern .

Actually is Portuguese :D:D:D:D... if somebody needs help with that let me know or check hxxp://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html

[Faros]

Dear Mredbautista, serankko and all interested members.

Mechatronics is not as magic as it looks; it is just an interface between electronic and mechanical device where it could have feed back from that mechanical device or applying computerized control where training is possible and also applying equations that its variables are sensed through electro-mechanical device.

To start dear Mredbautista, there is one old proved step which is reading … I will post a BIG handbook about mechatronics soon, from which we can start talking Mechatronics.

Thank you,

[seinfield]

like using PLC´s for production and process machines???

[nyoknyok]

Hello Faros,

I'm interested in mechatronics, I have some background in electronics and microcontroller programming. We can help each other with sharing of knowledge. thanks.

Regards,
nyoknyok

[Faros]

I have just uploaded The  MECHATRONICS handbook , use this link:

http://www.sonsivri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=846

Go through it, you will notice that it has chapter about sensors usage and another about Microcontrollers, it has some mathematical terms too that look theoretical but they are not, you can solve designs using real time simulation software like proteus VSM ore similar whoever we need DLL models for electro-Mechanical devices, we hopefully try to collect as much as we can out of those.  

Thank you,

[kctan]

like using PLC´s for production and process machines???

ya something like this but you also can use the PIC to control it. something like using state machine code to drive the sensor, motor and etc
mostly mechatronic is talking about motor

[Parmin]

Hey Faros,

Speaking of mechatronics, I do work with mechatronics daily and would like to be able to share infos.

Do you have anything about calculation for stepper motor ACCELERATION with load?

I have a problem.  I need to accelerate a 150 oz.in stepper motor with 120 oz.in load to 1500 rpm as smooth as possible and as FAST as possible (within 2 - 3 rev).  I guess the best profile should be logarithmic.  There are some alogarithm available while googling but none fits because they neglect the load factor.

[Faros]

Dear Parmin

You may have noticed that I haven’t post a lot since 3 weeks; I have got my self involved in a project to achieve simulated servo motors using power AC single phase gear boxed motors, the load factor is vital as well as the line voltage monitoring; this will also apply to DC motor’s and even servo motors were in this case the DC regulation will replace the line voltage monitoring; I have to design a complete project up to mass production level ( I have done some other designs in the consumer market in mass production) ; this project applies new concepts that will save cost of power servo motors as well as complicated servo drivers, the proposed design should tolerate both static and dynamic loads I haven’t find any similar designs in consumer products so far; I didn’t check them all whoever no one will tell that he is applying this method if he does, I am looking for more than shared info in this, may be a shared work if you like … there is a lot of articles about load monitoring available but very few MCU codes, if at all.

[Parmin]

Dear Parmin

You may have noticed that I haven’t post a lot since 3 weeks;

No problem, u busy me busy

I have got my self involved in a project to achieve simulated servo motors using power AC single phase gear boxed motors, the load factor is vital as well as the line voltage monitoring; this will also apply to DC motor’s and even servo motors were in this case the DC regulation will replace the line voltage monitoring;

Mine is not as complex, just simple DC servo/stepper (whichever handier) motor control. :p

I have to design a complete project up to mass production level ( I have done some other designs in the consumer market in mass production) ;

same here, but maybe of different product.. I have designed some medical instrumentation and optic correctional sets for mass production, plus a few security product (like electronic locks and cabinets) for mass production (mostly produced in China)... as I said, I am a small timer designer in mechatronics. if u buy stuff from china and it stopped working within a few months, it may be my design :eek: NOT!!!

I am looking for more than shared info in this, may be a shared work if you like … there is a lot of articles about load monitoring available but very few MCU codes, if at all.

I am game provided we could work out the system (some product disclosure law limits my sharing of my work):rolleyes:, otherwise it will be great to exchange snippets :p

[Faros]

Dear Parmin

What a coincidence? All of my  designs except for one are Medical Equipment’s!!!! May be because 300 boards are mass production in this area!!! … The AC motor control project is for an electronically controlled surgical bed …. It could be used in dental and ENT chairs as well … I have control over my designs as long as they are in design phase … I think designs can hardly clash in our big world …

[Parmin]

Hoy Faros

:eek:Freaky !! Interesting coincidents.  Do you do Motion Picture  controls  too? I do a few on the motion picture stuff (Intervalmeters, Jib controls, remote triggering etc)
 
 Err.. linear positioning (using optical mouse parts :p ) plus any motor on a worm gear should normally fix your problem is it not?
  methink the positioning is hardly a problem on your apps, it is more on the speed and jerk movement contror is the problem, am I right? :rolleyes:
 
 I do have control on my designs on the design phase, but, predesign brainstorms are locked in the product disclosure (common clients wants the fresh ideas - I charge them for it so what the heck )

[Faros]

Hi Parmin

Err.. linear positioning (using optical mouse parts  ) plus any motor on a worm gear should normally fix your problem is it not?
methink the positioning is hardly a problem on your apps, it is more on the speed and jerk movement contror is the problem, am I right?

The linear motor has end motion sensors but not position sensor, I don’t manufacture the gear box, I am using actuators as in this links

http://www.okin.de
http://www.linak.com

Optical mouse parts will not solve the problem because in using the actuators the whole housing is moving, so you have to install the optical sensor else were in your metal structure with linear to radial mechanical translator, the optical sensors are sensitive to dust, that may cause hazardous failures ( imagine a dental chair moving with 500,000 rpm hand piece in patient mouth) :eek: , using MCU I have a sensorless  design …. See we have started exchanging ideas, beautiful, isn’t it?  

[Parmin]

Faros,
 
 Ok two things.
 
 1.  I have not gone into the details yet, but the linear actuators available from the links supplied by you DOES have positional feedback (either passive - by number of rev/steps taken, or active - the more expensive models does came with pos sensor).  So I cannot see where your problem is here.    Unless you are designing the actuator from scratch  (pretty common for CNC movements) in which you could specify the degree of rotation to displacement by getting the right size ball screw system.
 
 2.  I would presume that the chair of a dentist would not be floating (ie. powered) while the drill is being used.  There is not any reason to have the actuator constantly tracking the position of the chair.  Simply stop all movement by either rotaty brake or linear brake/ camlock once the chair is in position.   Unless if you have any reason to move it while drilling :eek:.

[Faros]

Dear parmin,

1. I have not gone into the details yet, but the linear actuators available from the links supplied by you DOES have positional feedback (either passive - by number of rev/steps taken, or active - the more expensive models does came with pos sensor). So I cannot see where your problem is here. Unless you are designing the actuator from scratch (pretty common for CNC movements) in which you could specify the degree of rotation to displacement by getting the right size ball screw system.

Linear actuators may have “Reed switch (x pulses per spindle revolution)” only in high end models, it is optional with added cost to products that are expensive enough, linak for example included this option in the late 2005 also Okin has done it under “Speed logging over hall sensor”, both are passive , in bulk orders, you may wait for 6 month to have your order processed while the percent of programmable/non-programmable product is not clear in the market, as a result, most manufacturers purchase standard actuators with motion end sensor and solve position control via the electronics with linear to radial mechanical motion translator.

2. I would presume that the chair of a dentist would not be floating (ie. powered) while the drill is being used. There is not any reason to have the actuator constantly tracking the position of the chair. Simply stop all movement by either rotaty brake or linear brake/ camlock once the chair is in position. Unless if you have any reason to move it while drilling

Most chairs are controlled via foot switch, chair manufacturers are not necessarily the instrument delivery manufacturers to feed back the chair if an instrument is lifted, so you need consider that in your design, the ball screw system is designed to be still at no power and you can have extra brake shorting the DC motor leads but consider component failed in the wrong time!! .. Believe it or not, 80% of the dental unit that I have inspected will move the dental chair if you touch the foot switch while the hand piece is lifted and running.              

Thank you for your reply.  

[AdamKt]

Hi buddies,
I am also interested in Mechatronics. So Pl. let me join this group.
My strengths are:
1) Visual basic (Version 6).
2) Beachelor in Mechanical engineering.
3) The dedication to learn.
4) CAD Packages like AutoCAD, MicroStation etc
 
Problems with me:
1) Know a little about electronics.
2) Employed (Having little time to devote to hobby)
3) In a country where Internet Speed is very much slow and not very common.

[Parmin]

AdamKt  -
  No need for permission, just join in the discussion  welcome
 
 Faros -
 Sorry I didn't reply for a while. been busy.

 I guess you are right, I did not read all the tech info from the company you listed.  Not knowing which linear actuator you are planning to use, nor have I been told about the budget for this project,  I have opened my big mouth .  

I am curious in what type of solution you envision for this problem ?  are you going to read the back EMF of the motor (or similar unintrusive sense) to determine the number of revolution? or are you going to use hall effect (intrusive) for the job?  Do share.

[AdamKt]

The project in which I wish to work on is the automation of aeromodels.
The fields which I see involved are:
1) Electronics.
2) Communication.
3) Programing.
Any suggestion on how to proceed?

[Parmin]

The project in which I wish to work on is the automation of aeromodels.

Please elaborate.  Are you working on a:
- self guided model aeroplane
- model rocket
- ICBM Missile   :eek:

[AdamKt]

As I mentioned earlier that I know a little bit pf programing. Looking at my son flying an RC plane, the idea came to control the plane by a software. When I searched the net for info, I found many people working & completing the project, even the students.
So I wish to work on "Self guided model aeroplane".
The first thing which I need is to build the RC transmitter & receiver. This is my first milestone, which I have not been able to "Do It Myself" so far.

[ens_audio]

I was wondering if theres anyone that can post some links relating to this subject thats geographically relevant to the USA, Canada, EU. (*note to self* *must become multilingual or perish*  )


Thanks and PM me if you need a supporter of the coming "globalist nerd takeover" 

[Parmin]

Well... this is an old topic!

I wonder if FAROS still with us.

ens_audio, which subject? this is a very wide topic..